3 mindset scenarios to help you get it right in 2023 with Brian Kavicky

Tiffany Sauder: [00:00:00] Hey, it's Tiffany. If you've been listening to the show for a while, you know I'm feeling this pull away from social media and towards real connection, and that's exactly why I started my newsletter. It's a place for us to connect authentically without having to jump through algorithms. I usually share a little bit about what's going on in my life.

My family practical tips for two career homes and just generally things that are inspiring me. I'd love for you to join me so we can create this little online space and we can lean into all of the ands in our lives together. You could sign up at the link in our show notes. Enjoy this episode. I am a small town kid, born with a big city spirit.

I choose to play a lot of awesome roles in life. Mom, wife, entrepreneur, c e o, board member, investor, and mentor. 17 years ago I founded a marketing consultancy, and ever since my husband, JR and I have been building our careers and our family on the exact same timeline. Yep. That means four kids, three [00:01:00] businesses, two careers, all building towards one life.

We love when I discovered that I could purposefully embrace all of these and in my life, it unlocked my world. And I want that for you too. I'm Tiffany Souder and this is Scared, confident.

I'm excited Brian Ka Vicky on with me. So he's been in my life for over a decade. Uh, started. A sales coach and then kind of turned into like, I would say, business coach for me, and now does a lot of training inside of all the companies that I own and am, uh, part of. I definitely see him as part of our success formula, and Brian has always been really helpful for me in mindset, just like seeing things from a different perspective.

You can so get inside your own bucket as I mean, a human being, but I think specifically as a leader, like it can be hard sometimes to just really see things differently than the way that you see. and Brian has always really been that for me. So I asked him three questions, kind of three different [00:02:00] scenarios of mindset coming into 2023.

Getting your mind right is a really big part of winning the year. And so I asked him three scenarios. One is if you're looking at the coming year and saying, Hey, the economy is bad, if that's a belief that you have, how do you get your mindset right for that? The other is there's a lot of movement in jobs.

If you have recently. To let people go. It's not going the way that we thought, and we had to let people go. How do you get your mindset right as a leader, hiring manager in that environment? And then the third is if you've been affected by a job loss, how do you get your head right for the job search process?

So, I asked Brian about those three scenarios and um, I'm excited for you to listen in on our conversation.

Okay. So I want to talk a little bit about mindset stuff with you. We're in an economic environment that is less certain than the ones we've [00:03:00] been in in the past. I wanna talk to you about that because you have, I would say, a counter headline perspective on. , the mindset required to exist in any economic environment, but like news headlines want us to believe like, oh my word, we're in a recession, or the sky is falling, or tech as we knew it is dead.

Like you're never gonna get another new car again in your life. Like supply chain will never be fixed, bread will never exist again. Like whatever the things are, and that very sensational news environment can create really specific realities for our heads as leaders. Mindset in the way that we plan, the confidence that we present to our organization, the way that we think about what's doable and what's not doable.

And for my whole time working with you, knowing you, which is over 10 years, you've always had a very counter headline way of viewing that. And I think that's worth capturing for listeners. And I think it's especially poignant for me [00:04:00] because on Friday we're gonna be kicking off the year with the elementary team.

Casting vision for like, this is what we believe 2023 is gonna feel like. These are the key initiatives and all around them, there's people getting laid off. And there's always fear in the agency environment because if you've been in this environment for any extended period of time in your career, you've probably been through a layoff.

And so there's all this sort of like trepid. . So it's not my job to stand in front of everybody and say, I promise nothing bad is gonna happen. But it is. I think about creating a shared mindset of, no, we just react to the problems that we find, and we do that with tools that we have. And so, I don't know, I, I just wanna talk about that and hear you export.

Where's your head at? What advice are you giving? What are you seeing in the marketplace? And just go there.

Brian Kavicky: So for information that you get, you always have to look at what the motive of that information is coming. . So the news motivation is to [00:05:00] get viewers. So the worse the news is, the more we as human beings, like chaos, we tune in.

I mean, imagine a news channel where it was just good news all day. How many viewers would they get? So they know that. They need to give bad news and they need to give it all the time. So that's all they seek and all they seek to deliver for viewers, which is how they make their money. So once you know, oh, their motivation is to give bad news cuz that's how they make money, then do I really wanna watch that?

Do I really wanna pay attention to it? So then it's who do I want to listen to instead? If it's the economy. , I should listen to economists because economists motivation is to be accurate and the more accurate they are, the more money they make, the more speaking engagements they get, all those things. So I'm gonna go where the motivation is to be accurate versus to tell bad news.

So it's choose your news source cuz you choose what you choose to [00:06:00] believe. Your belief is a choice. that determines the outcome. It is not that the world tells me what to believe and I should just take it. It's what do I wanna believe and does that fit the outcome that I'm looking to get to.

Tiffany Sauder: One of the things you talked to me about early was this idea of you have a choice to make about whether or not you are gonna believe you're a victim to what's happening.

Can you speak to it? And then I can say the specific example.

Brian Kavicky: when when something happens to you, you can say, why is this happening to me? This person did this to me. I'm a victim of the circumstances. But most of the time, bad stuff has another side of the coin where it benefits you. So all of your wisdom in life that you have today, , it's probably based on mistakes and bad stuff that happened to you.

So in the moment it feels bad in the future, it feels like, wow, I learned something from that. I gained wisdom from that. So [00:07:00] you're making a choice in those moments of, am I gonna say, oh, there's nothing I can do about this. I just have to sit here and feel bad for myself. Or am I gonna do something, learn something, take wisdom away from this.

Is this a lesson learned instead? That's a. .

Tiffany Sauder: One of my early responses to like some impending doom that I believed was going to happen was to just freeze. How do you work with people to get through that period where it's like, no, you have to, to face the brutal facts. That's like very helpful articulation to me of like, okay, yeah, we do actually have to look at what is the reality of the situ.

That doesn't mean that I have to live with the consequence of what happens for the rest of my life. I get to figure out what my response to that's gonna be and take control over it. And I think that free state or that like stick your head in the sand or want to be able to keep your people's head in the right place is I think a reason why you can kind of like put [00:08:00] Rosie glasses on sometimes when you're leading, when the facing the brutal facts is actually a.

like ready tool that you should be leading your people with. It's like we really have got a rally around where we actually are now. We aren't a victim to that, but there are gonna have to be decisions that we navigate together to get there. So how do you, how do you, as you work with people, get people to like get there quickly or,

Brian Kavicky: well, freezing occurs when the choices are overwhelming.

So people freeze when they go, well, I could do this, I could do this, I could do this, could do this. I just don't know where to start. And the answer to get out of it is pick one. Pick the one that feels the best, pick the one that actually solves where the worry is coming from. and moves you in the direction of, if I do this, I will worry less because I will know this.

So getting out of a freeze when you feel like, oh, I'm overwhelmed, I can't do anything, is do something. Even the military says that, you know, they, they don't care what you do as long [00:09:00] as you take an action in that moment. Um, pilots, it's the same thing. Don't just sit there and analyze it. Do something immediately.

And for pilots, it's fly the plane first. So it's always do something and then you won't freeze.

Tiffany Sauder: Okay. So that's the decision point of like you're assessing what's going on, you're discerning whether or not you're getting news source or information from a place. What's the mindset going into any year?

This year we've had more conversations with clients saying like, Hey, we have to get approval. A new layer of management for this spend. We need to, you know, only approve six months of the budget, not 12 months of budget, cuz we're uncertain on what sales are gonna be. So those types of things start to settle into an environment, whether it's recessionary or just a new environment.

Um, what's the mindset that you think leaders or companies need to have in this environment, that 2023 is presenting

Brian Kavicky: it's abundance [00:10:00] versus garc. . So in that example you gave, you can't control that. A company is choosing to run with those things, of being cautionary, not knowing what to do, but what your response is, is what do we do with this if we know we're not getting as much money from this client as we thought we were going to get, let's go find another client.

Because the money's out there. But if you think this is all we have, there's only one client, we're not getting it, there's nothing we can do. That victim mindset, which comes from scarcity, you're going to just be stuck there. So let's just go find another client. Just go find more money. If, if somebody else is saying, well, we're only gonna spend half, then find somebody else that's only gonna spend half and now you're back at hole again.

Mm-hmm. , instantly. It's that I, I'm looking at the world through the lens of there's not. And I think Covid and the Crisis did a lot of that. When you can't buy toilet paper or bread, you think scarcity all the time. And it's been drilled into us. Everything's scarce. Yeah. Talent's [00:11:00] scarce though. Yeah. So just find an alternative.

You know, if talent is scarce, well then you have to up your talent finding things to find the best people because the, the good companies who have done the right things don't have the talent problems that companies that are not attractive. Two talent have, which is what you'd expect. But it's, it's that starting with, if, if I viewed the world as if there was plenty to go around, what would I be doing now I just go find somewhere else.

Tiffany Sauder: I have also helped my, my brain said like, um, my, how might need to change, but my if is the same, yes, if I will, is an imperative. Yes, I will. But how I get there, like you said, your original. Plan may have said six clients, it might need to end up being 11 or whatever it is. Right? Because your how has to flex based on the reality of what's playing out.

That actually leads me to this like visceral commitment to goals. I feel like I [00:12:00] also learned that from you. Can you speak to that like this? Like where do you mean? No, we're hitting it, like we're hitting it, like it's not looking good. Like No, we're hitting it . Right. I feel like we had that conversation like about like the trajectory, like No, we're hitting.

You're hitting it? Yes. What do you mean I'm hit? You're hitting it .

Brian Kavicky: It's the, we're halfway through the year and we're not tracking towards the goal, so we're thinking about changing our goal and lowering it. Yes. No, go for the same goal, but you spent all that time figuring out why the goal was, what it was, why it was important, why it mattered.

why would you give up on it? Just because you faced adversity and to your point, the how changes, why would you stop is all of a sudden it's not important. It's kind of you're weighing things on a scale. You know, if it's, I'm faced with a tough decision, that means I have to lay off a lot of people. Well, which one do I want?

Do I want the difficulty of laying off the people or do I want the difficulty of closing the business cuz I ran out of money? Mm-hmm. , pick one. It's pretty easy to decide if it's, oh, I have this goal. , [00:13:00] do I care about the goal anymore? Is it not important? Well then maybe we should change it. But if the goal was important, then I need to adjust to get back on track.

I need to do things differently.

Tiffany Sauder: I feel like I, I like to think I surround myself particularly with really high achievers that they wanna be right at the end of the year. So they wanna change the goal to like make the percentage chance of them being right higher. And instead of, like, let's say you work your face off towards the original.

and you miss it by 8%. If you lower your goal by 20% so that you're right, you left 12% on the table. Does my analogy make sense, ?

Brian Kavicky: Yeah. That, that's a different mindset problem. That one is, as human beings, we measure gaps more than we measure gain. So people that say, well, I wanna lose weight, and they say, I wanna lose 60 pounds this year, and they lose 50.

they will look first and say, I failed. I didn't hit my goal. It's like, wait a second. You [00:14:00] lost 52 pounds. That is significant. Yes. You didn't hit your goal. , but you were striving for it until the last day you did everything possible. We are more proud of what we did on the gain than missing the actual goal.

So even if you say, Nope, we're going for the goal, we're not changing it, and you fall short, you're probably gonna outperform what you would've lowered it to had you lowered it. So it's Which one do I want? Do I wanna see if I can. And keep on track and then say, wow, I did a lot, I did all that I could. I feel good about that.

Or do I just lower it and say, well, I was right, but it's not even close to what I could, Ben, which, which alternative do you want? Pick one. The key is commit to it. Whatever your choice or decision is, commit to that decision.

Tiffany Sauder: So if you were addressing the company on Friday around this idea of mindset, abundance, what anything else you would add to, Hey, this is what it is going to take from us as a.

[00:15:00] to be sitting here a year from now saying like, we did the thing.

Brian Kavicky: I like the phrase, we are not participating. We are creating our own reality. So you're gonna hear a lot of things. We can't do this even in your own thoughts. It's not possible. This is too aggressive. We don't know what's gonna happen. We're not participating in that mindset is we're gonna figure out how to make this happen, cuz we like that outcome better.

So we feel like we have the right people, we feel like we have the right company, the right customers to do what we're setting out to do. And that's what we're gonna roll with. And if adversity happens, we'll figure it out When it happens, we'll probably create some problems along the way, which we'll figure out too.

But this is what we're going to do and we're going to commit to doing. That's kind of it.

Tiffany Sauder: What do you say when people say, does this ever get easier?

Brian Kavicky: I believe it gets easier. You know, history repeats itself. You know, cycles repeat themselves, and when you get used to [00:16:00] the cycle, it's not such a big deal anymore.

And you're going, okay, I know what I did last time. I know what the outcome was. I'll be okay for this. Yeah, I'm a little nervous. I'm a little scared. I, I'm just gonna use the playbook I used last time and adjust it for the current conditions that I do think that gets easier. Mm-hmm. , I think that's why some people are unfazed by things and, and some people are actually, this is great.

I mean, we're forecast to have a depression in the 2030s, and if you know that's going to happen in you're prepared, depression makes a lot of rich people richer, though. It's okay, well, I can, I can use this or I can be victimized by it. What, what, what preparation do I want to prepare? .

Tiffany Sauder: So the other two places where I'm just reflecting on mindset, like scanning the world around me In certain sectors, there's been spaces where there's been a lot of layoffs, and I think one of the places, understandably, the energy in that situation is put on the employee affected, like [00:17:00] understandably, they're displaced.

Totally get it. But there's also a, a real. like psychological journey, especially in your first part of your career when you're the hiring manager or you sat across from somebody and you were like, I think you're amazing. This is the role you're trusting me with. You know, your mortgage, your young kids, your college aged kid.

You start to like understand their life and you feel a sense of commitment to the fact that they trusted you. And if I hadn't had good mentors around me, I could have taken. Me, I think longer to sort of get my head back together of like, my job is to keep running the company. What, what advice do you give in those moments On the employer side, the hiring manager side?

like how do you get your mindset right?

Brian Kavicky: I think the hiring manager needs to realize that there are things that they can control and commit to and things that they can't, and you are not responsible for someone's life and the [00:18:00] choices that they've made in their lives. You are responsible for delivering what you said you deliver.

And as a company, when you hire someone, you're basically saying, we're paying you to do a. Well, if the job doesn't exist anymore, we're not going to pay you that. That's the harsh reality of we, we are committing to this. We're not promising to make you rich. We're not promising to take care of you for the rest of your life.

We're not promising that all your bills are paid. We're promising to pay you for the contribution you're gonna make here. And that's where it starts and stops. Mm-hmm. . So don't overset expectations with people so that they hear something different in. Of this is gonna be great. This is gonna be wonderful.

The more positive expectations, the more opportunity you have to let somebody down of this is reality.

Tiffany Sauder: I get the sentiment of that, but like the reality of it. In a highly competitive talent situation, we're like selling our culture and all kinds of things that [00:19:00] are not just, look, this is an economic exchange.

You have talents. You know what I mean? Yeah. What we're selling unilaterally or. , most people competing for talent. I say most in the world that I live in, culture becomes a really big part of the hiring employment agreement. And I think that's where it gets crusty a little bit on this.

Brian Kavicky: But isn't the culture that you're delivering what they thought it was?

Yeah, that's fair. So your responsibility is to deliver the culture that they're. People that have worked on their culture and have significantly good cultures don't have to recruit. People show up and say, I want to be here. So this idea of we have to sell 'em on what we do is actually a sign that your culture's not that good because you have to sell people on it.

It's when people show up and say, I wanna be a part of this. I'll take a pay cut to work here. There are a lot of people today in a tough competitive. [00:20:00] For hiring, taking pay cuts to work with companies where they think it's a good opportunity for them and they're taking the pay cut. You don't have to sell people.

Tiffany Sauder: What's your response to saying it's the greatest failure of leadership to have to lay people off. , do you agree that, don't agree with that?

Brian Kavicky: No, I don't agree. I think where I see leaders fail is they hold onto people when the business can't support that, and that's where the business and they fail, is that they're not making the hard choice.

That keeps their responsibility of keeping the business afloat, growing the company. They're not living up to that when they don't lay off. , it's actually the opposite. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And it can have big cultural impacts when you don't. There's a lot of things for sure. Now, if a company says we exist to employ people and they fail that, that's okay.

Mm-hmm. . But you can't say, we exist to grow, we exist to stay alive. We exist to provide this value to our [00:21:00] customers and then not make a hard choice. That's, that's against what you said you were doing?

Tiffany Sauder: I've, I've texted a few people that I know have been. The sort of the employer side of it'll like happen to and say like, it feels really big and like a really big personal failure, but the, they'll be okay and so will you.

But it feels very personal in seasons for sure. Yeah. And then what about if people are out in the job market right now and they are maybe are got laid off for the first time ever and are suddenly realizing, hey, I've got this reality now that I've gotta say to my next employer, like, I got laid. May not have been for performance, but what would be your advice on mindset there?

Brian Kavicky: I would say to use this time to figure out what you want and pursue what you want and what you think you need, what you believe you need today is, I need money coming in the door. Well, that's easy to fix. Go get a job that gets money coming in the door. Go wait [00:22:00] tables cuz they're curring for people. Go to where people are willing to pay you money to do something as you take the time to look for what you want and don't settle for something that just.

pays the bills and has you looking again, because now you're gonna have that turnover on your resume of mm-hmm. . Well, I went here cuz I needed a job and people will sort of look down on you for that later. You're, you're creating a problem. They'd love to hear. So I decided, I'm looking for what I want. I got these small jobs to pay the bills and I found what I want and that's why I'm applying to this position.

That's a good hire interview. Right. and the scarcity thought on the financial side can get people into bad decisions on the job career side. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. They're setting themselves up to get fired or fail. Mm-hmm. because they're doing something they don't want to do, or they're, or they're working for somebody that is not there to develop and grow them as people.

Mm-hmm. because they know that people just want to get paid. [00:23:00] You know, it's kind of, People take advantage of the weak mindset. Mm-hmm. , don't be weak in those moments. Yeah, that's a really good point.

Tiffany Sauder: So I, you're like a guy who, how many clients do you serve? I mean, lots you, how many businesses do you come into contact with in a given year, do you think? Probably hundreds. Yeah. Okay. And you've been doing this for a long time? 12 years. Decade. Yeah. Yeah. So thousand companies easy. You've had a contact with.

guiding, directing, helping get clear on strategy, sales, training, all this revenue growth. What are you learning right now? Like where are you seeing I need to grow here so that I'm can continue to stay relevant? Push people just like continue to grow and expand.

Brian Kavicky: For me, it's, I know that I have a talent to grow people and grow leaders.

It's allocating time to [00:24:00] where and who that is for is a much more cautious and thought through thing. My mindset used to be, . Well, if you deserve help and you need help, I'll give it to you. Mm-hmm. , now it's, I'm gonna pick and choose who that is. A little bit tighter than I, I have recently because waste is what triggers me.

And if I waste, that really gets me hard. Mm-hmm. . So I need to be better at making sure I'm not wasting. What do I need to get better as a skillset? I think speed is good. I can do stuff quickly. I can make change happen quickly. I think keeping that speed up longer for people, I have to figure that out a little bit because I, I know how to create the hockey stick and then it's, well, how do I create the next hockey stick?

Mm-hmm. and the next hockey. I don't know whether that's possible, but I'd like to push it and see if that can happen over and over and over

Tiffany Sauder: on the first one. What's the words [00:25:00] you use or what are your strategies for when you're like, I don't know that me mentoring them or giving them an hour is the right exchange right now for my time.

And what do you say

Brian Kavicky: it's, do they want it? , do they feel they need it? Do they have to have it? If they're like, yeah, I'd really like to get there, or someday they don't want it. If people are saying, I need it for these reasons, cuz this is what has to happen, that's good. The other one is, I'm mostly judging based on what kind of a person I think they are.

And good people typically will do the things necessary to make the right things happen. People who aren't. , they're shortcut seekers. They mm-hmm. , they do things selfishly. I, I can't work with those kind of people and I'll just call it, I, I mean, use my words. I'll just tell 'em, I, I think you're selfish, or, I think this is not good.

I fired a client last year because I, they had character problems and [00:26:00] I said, I, I can't work with you because your character is in question and you're calling mine out in question. Because of that, I can't. .

Tiffany Sauder: I'll have some times where people reach out to me and say like, I would love your story. I'd like to get to know you.

And I would like to say that I would like to say yes to that, but it's, it just doesn't scale my time and my kids are at a season where I really want to be time available for them. There were lots of years where I was not time available for them, and I struggle with the way to say. No.

Brian Kavicky: If you have your priorities in order mm-hmm.

that's when it's easier to say no. And that's what you actually tell the person of, these are my priorities currently. I don't know how to fit this into those priorities. Mm-hmm. , so I have to say no right now. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . I'm not saying I can't say yes later, but based on my priorities, I can't fit this in.

Tiffany Sauder: I don't want them to feel reject.

Brian Kavicky: Right, and you're not, you build a sandbox and say, I'm only gonna spend [00:27:00] time on what's in the sandbox. Everything else I'm out. And so just tell 'em this is my sandbox and these are the constraints and I can't fit this in. So I have to say, I have to say no, not I'm choosing to say no.

Tiffany Sauder: I like that. That's really good advice. Lots of people have been huge catalysts in my life and I wanna be able to pay that forward, but there's a, a certain scale that that can't happen. . Um, so also ask 'em what they want to get out of it.

What does a good request sound like in your inbox?

Brian Kavicky: This is why I'd like to meet with you.

This is what I wanna learn from you. Mm-hmm. . And if there's any way that I can help you, I would do it if I can.

Tiffany Sauder: If you've been good in helping me sort through these seasons too. So I'll share my example and, um, you can coach me in real time and other people can listen. . So I entered the year with lots of fresh ambition and mostly clear goals of like what I wanted my time to look like.

Came into the year and one of my daughters is [00:28:00] having a pretty new for our family, um, experience with anxiety. That has really moved my schedule around and my mental availability to be present for the things I need to. and like puts you on like hot colds when your phone rings and you don't sleep as well at night.

Cuz things are weird and you're on the phone with coaches and counselors and teachers and just like trying to get your head around like, who is this person that I thought I knew really well and I probably still need to have like a really good cry about it, but me being strong is the right thing right now.

But at some point I need to be like, blah. That was, that was gross. , but I still need to function at a really high level, still need to do the things. Um, so there were seasons when I would come to you and be like, my head and time is like really kind of in a shaker right now. Get me clear so that I can keep doing this.

Cuz you don't have the luxury of saying like, I need to take six weeks, sort [00:29:00] of sideline everything and then I'll come back when everything is neat and tidy. Like gotta keep moving the things forward. These are also responsibilities that I have even. , she is my most important priority right now. My personality is not to just drop everything else.

So what's your advice or guidance, or what would you pick inside of that?

Brian Kavicky: I think you need to be careful that you don't enter anxiety because of this and anxiety. Comes from not fixing, so you don't have to fix it to get rid of that risk, but you do have to be making progress towards fixing and focus your efforts on fixing, solving, accommodating.

whatever you can do that will keep you out of this space of just being, this is wasting me, spending me. Mm-hmm. , all those things. It's, am I doing the right things in order to solve the problem? Am I giving it the attention that it needs with what's within my [00:30:00] control? And then go, that's all I can do. You can't do much else after that and give yourself some credit for that.

Tiffany Sauder: I think it's my first parenting situation where, I'm suddenly aware of how little control I actually have over these human beings who are actually their own entity, their own brains, their own, all that kind of stuff. And I am feeling what you're saying, which is like I have to give myself credit for, even if there's not visible progress, if we tried some things that at least ruled some things out, you know, like, okay, those things don't work.

We made progress today, even. , it's not all better. And I also think I wanna be able to fix it on my timeline versus hers, which is hard because yours faster or slower, f faster. Like people have given me advice that like the organization can only change as fast as [00:31:00] its ability to ingest change. And I'm seeing like her mind can only really absorb so many concepts in a day, , you know what I mean?

So I'm like, so I read all this stuff and like, it's like I can. , treat her like a e lab rat where I'm like, here you go. That didn't work. Okay. 15 minutes, like reset the timer. Like, here, let's try this. It's like I got a letter like, okay, you're over. We've tried these things for the day. We need to just go to bed and kind of reset.

Brian Kavicky: So there's a measuring stick. You can use that with mindset. It's the idea of appropriate patience and appropriate patience is, is it moving appropriately? So I can say, well, I don't have patience, so I'm gonna push things. Mm-hmm. . And then I find that their timeline's different. Well, now I have to adjust, but I'm not gonna adjust all the way to their level.

I'm gonna still push it a. and I'm gonna be patient that they're not as fast as I want, but we're a lot closer together. Mm-hmm. than these [00:32:00] extremes of, I don't want to change, I want you to change fast. Mm-hmm. ,

Tiffany Sauder: you know, going back to like the very beginning of this conversation, like the face of brutal facts, that was such an important in solving really big things in the organization.

It's like really important. Like we all have to see the facts the same way for us to be able to move in the same direction to. . That phrase came to my head when I was like, oh, we have to get a shared understanding of what we're solving for. That's actually the first step of progress, and it was just interesting to me that I was like, this is literally the solving pattern in all the things.

I can't even point to my marriage. Like until we could both say this is the problem, we weren't able to like put things back together. So it's really interesting. I was like, wow, that solving pattern literally exists everywhere, including. with a child who's much younger than me, but we had to get a shared understanding for her to participate in what we needed to do to move forward.[00:33:00]

That's actually, I'm just seeing that right now. But that's exactly what you're saying. You have to name the problem. Yeah. And agree to the problem. Uhhuh, . Otherwise you don't know what you're fixing. And I think it can, I don't know. For me, it can sometimes be hard to have courage to do that. Cause it's like I don't wanna live in a bad news.

I don't want to , I wanna be happy. I want there to be parties. I want there to be pink and for everybody to like be like, that was great. So I've had to really work at that and surround myself with people like you and my husband that are more like, no, this is just what's going on, . Yep. We need to go there.

Brian Kavicky: We're, we're not supposed to. Like this world.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Thank you for joining me on another episode of Scared Confident. Until next time, keep telling fear you will not decide what happens in my life. I will. If you wanna get the inside scoop, sign up for my newsletter. We decided to make content for you instead of social media algorithms.

The link is waiting for you in show notes or you can head over [00:34:00] to tiffany souder.com. Thanks for listening.

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