304: 5 Belief Shifts for Working Moms Who Want More

[00:00:00] Andrea Liebross: Anything is possible. I believe that any transformation or any change that's gonna happen really has to start with me. It's an intimate type experience. Mm-hmm. I believe that I can create whatever I want to create, and I use that word a lot, create, and I also believe that curiosity should be the driver of all decisions.

[00:00:22] Tiffany Sauder: I am Tiffany Sauder, entrepreneur, wife, mom to four girls, and a woman figuring it out just like you. If you're tired of living a life of have to and finally ready to build a life of want to, then you're in the right place. Come on, let's go Build your Life of And.

[00:00:46] Tiffany Sauder: If you are a capable, accomplish, and ambitious woman, but feel like you are circling the same level of success year after year, this is an episode for you. If you know you're playing smaller than you're capable of but can't quite explain why, then this is one you need to tune into. Because for most women, staying stuck isn't about fear or laziness.

[00:01:06] Tiffany Sauder: It's about belief systems that once kept us safe, responsible, and successful are now quietly limiting what we're willing to imagine. Today I'm talking with Andrea Liebross, host of She Thinks Big About Why belief is not soft, it's structural, and how upgrading the internal system you're operating from is often the first step toward real movement.

[00:01:28] Tiffany Sauder: Welcome to Life of And this conversation is part of a broader exploration we're doing about why so many capable women feel stuck even when nothing looks broken from the outside. Today's conversation is about belief. Not mindset acts, but the internal systems that shape what we think is possible, responsible, and allowed.

[00:01:46] Tiffany Sauder: I'm joined by Andrea Liebross, who works with women leaders who helps them see how belief operates a structure and not emotion, and how upgrading that structure changes what they're willing to pursue, ask for, and act on. Andrea, welcome to our new studio. It's fabulous. We are like tech hacking our way into this.

[00:02:04] Tiffany Sauder: So here we go. Let's do this conversation. So Andrea and I belonged to the same club, and we got connected with some mutual sort of women in the city, and we were walking on the treadmill as middle-aged women do.

[00:02:16] Andrea Liebross: Yes.

[00:02:16] Tiffany Sauder: Um, and we started talking about this idea of belief and she started share sharing with me.

[00:02:22] Tiffany Sauder: I was like, Hey, da da da. Like, let's not talk about it here. I wanna bring you on the podcast. I wanna talk about this work that you do around belief, because what does my bracelet say here?

[00:02:33] Andrea Liebross: Believe.

[00:02:34] Tiffany Sauder: Believe. So this silly little rainbow bracelet

[00:02:38] Andrea Liebross: that is like Taylor Swift. Yeah. Taylor Swift inspired,

[00:02:42] Tiffany Sauder: nice friendship beats.

[00:02:43] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. So I found this bracelet underneath one of the couches in our house when we were packing up all of our belongings. Thanksgiving weekend, you know, house of Girls. We got crap everywhere. We got, you know, one clip on earring and whatever, and I found this bracelet and for some reason I put it on and I didn't throw it away.

[00:03:00] Tiffany Sauder: And so as I was packing. And you know, you've just got time where you're doing tasks that are not that creatively fulfilling. And I'm going into year end thinking about 2026. It's like we're then this kind of the season of renewal as a family new house, new starts last calendar year of all of my girls home, which has made me very pensive and focused.

[00:03:24] Tiffany Sauder: I would say, what gets my time? And just this idea of all this stuff I still wanna do in the season where I'm needed in so many places. I'm like, it really is about first believing that it's possible. So this is a thing I'm focused on and practicing, and I'm really excited to learn alongside my listeners of like, what does it look like to move belief from this emotional, maybe fleeting thing?

[00:03:50] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. That comes and goes momentarily. To, as I'm using your vocabulary, I don't understand it yet, but you say it's structural. Yeah. So tell us about that. Welcome to the show.

[00:03:59] Andrea Liebross: Thanks for having me. I love the bracelet. I think I need one too now.

[00:04:02] Tiffany Sauder: Yes. And uh, yeah,

[00:04:03] Andrea Liebross: I do need one.

[00:04:04] Tiffany Sauder: A little Taylor Swift inspired.

[00:04:06] Andrea Liebross: Exactly.

[00:04:06] Tiffany Sauder: But

[00:04:06] Andrea Liebross: yes, never go wrong. So, okay, so here's how I see this. I mean, belief usually gets thrown in with the word mindset. People go, oh, I just have to think positively. I've gotta believe something's possible. Okay, great. But what I really think is that belief is structural and it deserves like a seat at the table just as much as if we're talking about business like marketing or finance or human resources.

[00:04:36] Andrea Liebross: It's a strategy in a sense, and I love to use the metaphor or the visual of a bonfire.

[00:04:42] Tiffany Sauder: Okay.

[00:04:43] Andrea Liebross: So, um. When I was in college, senior year, or sorry, freshman year, you at Homecoming, they built a bonfire. It was supposed to be the number of levels high as your year of graduation, and then all the freshmen were supposed to run around it.

[00:04:58] Andrea Liebross: That many times. So this is a visual in my head that like has significance. Yeah. And in the middle of the bonfire, every bonfire there's a flame and then there are these beams around it that are really what hold the flame kind of in place and allow it to grow. Mm-hmm. So I'm really passionate about two things.

[00:05:19] Andrea Liebross: One is illuminating, I call it illuminating possibility. And the other is the intimacy of transformation and illuminating possibility is that flame, like, is it possible for you this year to spend the time that you wanna spend with your daughters, right? Mm-hmm. Like that's a possibility, you know it's possible.

[00:05:38] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. But how do we do that? How do we do it? Now you are an expert at setting up amazing with Life of And mm-hmm. Like you've gotta make some decisions, people, you've gotta set up some systems. But I think. That a lot of that is, and in, in some way, external. And this belief is internal and it's really the structure that keeps that flame alive.

[00:06:01] Andrea Liebross: Right. So,

[00:06:02] Tiffany Sauder: so true.

[00:06:02] Andrea Liebross: Yes. And it's, and it's, it's, when I say like intimacy of transformation, it's different for everybody. It's not just positive thinking. Mm-hmm. It's something that's very personal. Um, and I see too many women trying to, what I call outwork disbelief. Mm-hmm. Thinking that they're just, if they just do more hustle harder, um, even make different decisions like it, things are going to happen.

[00:06:30] Andrea Liebross: Yes. Okay. However, you've really got to have some sort of grounding. I think first in order to make anything happen, whether it's in a business or at home or whatever. So that's when I say it's structural. Mm-hmm. It's something that like holds these possibilities together and helps you grow.

[00:06:50] Tiffany Sauder: So the two things were illuminating, possibility and what was the other one?

[00:06:53] Andrea Liebross: The, I call it the intimacy of transformation. So a lot of the work that I do with my clients, I coach women, business owners all across the country of all different types of businesses, different industries, and they come to me like, Hey, Andrea, help me grow or scale my business. And I say to them in the beginning, yes, we're, that's our objective here and talk about Life of And, and we are probably gonna have to get pretty personal on what is important to you.

[00:07:22] Andrea Liebross: And you are going to grow as a, your business is only gonna grow as fast as you really grow as a human. So that's kind of an intimate experience. Mm-hmm. Um, that requires you to kind of be honest and go deep and not just think positive.

[00:07:38] Tiffany Sauder: What has your own experience looked like with this topic? 'cause I find often as like coaches and content creators and people who have platforms.

[00:07:47] Tiffany Sauder: The thing we're teaching on it is so acute to us.

[00:07:50] Andrea Liebross: Yes.

[00:07:50] Tiffany Sauder: It's like the thing that we, it's our

[00:07:51] Andrea Liebross: lived experience in a way.

[00:07:52] Tiffany Sauder: Yes. And it's like life has brought this to be in a very acute way. So what has that looked like for you?

[00:07:58] Andrea Liebross: So, um, I started my, this business in 2018, so it's been a while and it's kind of rollercoaster.

[00:08:07] Andrea Liebross: There's the, I think Darren Hardy's book is something about the entrepreneurial rollercoaster, and I've seen myself. Go through stages of wondering, Hey, is this decision I'm making really gonna pan out? Mm-hmm. Or not? Is this, is this a smart decision? Um, questioning, right questioning and it sounds so noble.

[00:08:30] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. Like, of course I wanna make the right decision. Of course I am wanna weigh all my options and get all the information. So it sounds great, but really at the root, is it gonna work? A lot of that comes down to do I believe it's going to work? Am I gonna, am I willing to work at it for as long as it takes?

[00:08:50] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. Or am I willing to figure it out along the way? Not just hustle until it happens, but am I willing to figure it out? And I think there's a, there's people talk about commitment. Um, people talk about, I talk about a lot about are you, what's the difference between commitment and interest? Am I just interested in making this happen or am I really committed making it happen?

[00:09:13] Andrea Liebross: Um, but underneath all of that, I have to believe it actually could happen. Mm-hmm. So I've seen that in my business. And then I think, um, personally, you know, I've, we've done some pretty, um. And, and I've been married for, um, like almost 30, 30 years this year. So

[00:09:31] Tiffany Sauder: congratulations. Thank you. Actually, that's very hard to do.

[00:09:33] Tiffany Sauder: It's

[00:09:33] Andrea Liebross: a, that's a lot time.

[00:09:34] Tiffany Sauder: It's a very hard to do it

[00:09:35] Andrea Liebross: long time. Um, and okay, so I'll use a personal example of this, how this happened in my relationship. We. Lived in a, we've lived in the same house for like 25 years and nothing. It's all great. Nothing's wrong with it. And during the pandemic for sort of a fun activity on a weekend, we went and looked at this, this new development, this thing home orama.

[00:09:57] Andrea Liebross: Okay. So, um, just poking around. No, no objective.

[00:10:02] Tiffany Sauder: You're literally an avatar in their marketing plan.

[00:10:05] Andrea Liebross: I am. I totally am. Totally am. So we go. Okay. It's great. And my husband says in the middle of the week, do you wanna go back next weekend and look at lots? I mean, would we ever think of building a house?

[00:10:17] Andrea Liebross: Alright, I'm getting like, really? No. Like mm-hmm. It was really, he was sort of driving the horse on this. So we go and within, you know, two hours, okay, I think we should buy a lot. And my husband's a physician. He's very calculated in all of his decisions and he, you know, he's, that's, no, we need to do some more research on this.

[00:10:36] Andrea Liebross: And I sat, we sat in the car in the parking lot. I said, no. I believe like we can make this happen. Mm-hmm. You know, then we go into the whole, can we afford it dis 'cause this was so unplanned. Mm-hmm. Like, no, I believe we can make this happen. I think we need to go home and get this checkbook and come back and like, and if it doesn't work out, if we decide no, we can always sell it back.

[00:10:54] Andrea Liebross: But like, there's been instances like that where I really feel like. Illuminating what's possible. Mm-hmm. You know, believing that maybe we can make this happen. And along the way a lot transformed, like a lot changed in our relationship and just mm-hmm. How we did things. We never, people will say, did you get in an argument?

[00:11:13] Andrea Liebross: Were you about to get divorced? No, we weren't actually. It was okay. It all worked out. But that's, you know, you see it kind of uhhuh if you're aware. I think awareness is, first of all,

[00:11:21] Tiffany Sauder: when you're working with a woman who's got a business mm-hmm. And a bunch going on, and you're like, ah, we are not. This is not a, um, fundamentals like Xs and o's business thing we need to fix.

[00:11:34] Tiffany Sauder: This is a belief thing mm-hmm. That we need to fix. What are the things you're hearing her say? What are the things that sort of pique your, and, and even I, I think for a listener of like. What are the thoughts that are tracking through your mind Yeah. That make you realize like, this belief is really something you need to tackle?

[00:11:50] Andrea Liebross: I think it comes out in a couple ways. One is this like outworking, which we talked about. Mm-hmm. Another thing is, um, confidence. So I hear people say, I need more evidence before I do something, or I'm not sure if I'm ready yet. Mm-hmm. And that is. I, I think you have to actually do something in order to create that confidence and, but what's going to spark you actually doing it is this.

[00:12:21] Andrea Liebross: Mm, I think I could do it. I, you've gotta have that little spark. So if someone's hesitating and not moving forward and waiting for some confidence to grow, I kind of go back to like, okay, let's dial it back a little. Is this something that you think could really actually happen? Do you believe it can happen and then you start to sometimes waver?

[00:12:47] Andrea Liebross: Right? Because they're blaming it on external things. Like, I'm not ready until this happens. I'm not ready until that happens. Okay. Is that really honestly just like a stall tactic? Mm-hmm. What, what's at the root of all of that?

[00:12:58] Tiffany Sauder: But is belief evidence-based or not?

[00:13:01] Andrea Liebross: This is also a very good question. I think our brain is constantly searching for evidence.

[00:13:07] Andrea Liebross: Right. But I think in, at the root of it, it's not like you need to believe before you've got the evidence.

[00:13:15] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:15] Andrea Liebross: So I think you can cre create more confidence, which then supports the belief. Mm-hmm. But initially you don't have, you don't, don't necessarily have the evidence. So I think it's more internal than anything else.

[00:13:31] Tiffany Sauder: Do you think in your work, do you find that some people are more wired towards

[00:13:35] Andrea Liebross: Yes.

[00:13:35] Tiffany Sauder: Sort of this

[00:13:36] Andrea Liebross: Yes.

[00:13:36] Tiffany Sauder: Optimistic belief orientation versus,

[00:13:39] Andrea Liebross: yeah. I think a lot of it has to do with risk tolerance in a way. Um. Willingness to give up a little bit of control even. Mm-hmm. Um, fearing the fear of failure gets in the way of belief.

[00:13:53] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. So I hear that a lot. We also, not recognizing your own agency

[00:13:58] Tiffany Sauder: mm-hmm.

[00:13:59] Andrea Liebross: Um, and that you get to make decisions like you are in charge. We just had a whole discussion today actually coaching about what, what's authority. This came up, um, as we were talking about decision making. And how oftentimes we hesitate to make decisions, we, we hold them.

[00:14:19] Andrea Liebross: Even after we've made the decision, we kind of still hold onto it and reconsider. And I said to the women on the call, I'm like, you are all leaders. Mm-hmm. Right? So you have the authority to make a decision without having to prove yourself, give evidence, back it up, try to massage it. And so this word authority came into play and someone said, what do you really mean by that?

[00:14:44] Andrea Liebross: So I looked up authority in Webster's dictionary there on Google.

[00:14:47] Tiffany Sauder: The authority on authority.

[00:14:48] Andrea Liebross: The authority on authority. And it, you know, it was something about power, permission, and position. Okay, I got it. I said, but I think what this is missing out on is that it's a privilege that you have this authority.

[00:15:01] Andrea Liebross: You, you as the leader, can do these things. Mm-hmm. But you're not gonna do them. Unless you have the structure that, like belief structure mm-hmm. Around it. So it's almost like architecting.

[00:15:13] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:14] Andrea Liebross: Um,

[00:15:16] Tiffany Sauder: I picture, I grew up in the farm and so my mom would always put, um, uh, tomato cages.

[00:15:22] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:15:23] Tiffany Sauder: Over a very tiny plant that did not need any vertical support yet.

[00:15:28] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. But it was like this belief that it was gonna

[00:15:31] Andrea Liebross: Right.

[00:15:31] Tiffany Sauder: Grow. So in some ways that,

[00:15:33] Andrea Liebross: that's, that's, yeah. Mm-hmm. So it's like a, yeah. You have to engineer it.

[00:15:37] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.

[00:15:38] Andrea Liebross: In a way. Right?

[00:15:39] Tiffany Sauder: So I, I wrote down, um, when, when you, even when you talked about your hus, you and your husband buying that lot, and you getting in the car and being like, I think we should do it.

[00:15:49] Tiffany Sauder: And you're like, we can always undo it. I think we sometimes forget part of our authority often can also come in, in undoing what we did.

[00:15:58] Andrea Liebross: Yes.

[00:15:58] Tiffany Sauder: So it's like, can it, I ask myself that question sometimes. Can I easily go back to where it was before? Like having a kid harder, you know, to undo that. Right. There are some things that's like harder to undo.

[00:16:09] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. But I do think sometimes our brains catastrophize these decisions. We, we get to make, yes. We have to make, as entrepreneurs in our businesses and professional lives where we think we, we forget we can undo it.

[00:16:23] Andrea Liebross: Well, I think part of also going back to Webster and the dictionary, like you get to make the decision, but really what matters most is.

[00:16:33] Andrea Liebross: Can, are you, um, available kind of emotionally and intellectually to respond to whatever happens in the end? Right? So I always say there's no failures. It's either you're winning or you're learning. Mm-hmm. So can, if you can figure out how to respond, right? Mm-hmm. Then you're fine. So it's not. It's not, um, it doesn't have to be final.

[00:16:58] Andrea Liebross: Yeah. In a sense. And you're, I think you're so right that what's the worst thing that can happen? I always say that too. What's

[00:17:04] Tiffany Sauder: the worst thing that can happen? Well, I think you said you're, you're learning or you're winning.

[00:17:07] Andrea Liebross: Yep.

[00:17:07] Tiffany Sauder: I think there is a, a stubborn stock.

[00:17:11] Andrea Liebross: Oh, there's a stubborn stock.

[00:17:12] Tiffany Sauder: Then those people do sometimes lose actually be

[00:17:16] Andrea Liebross: because they're stuck

[00:17:17] Tiffany Sauder: because they're stubborn.

[00:17:17] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. Because the stubbornness does not allow them to move off of the thing that they're

[00:17:22] Andrea Liebross: I would agree.

[00:17:23] Tiffany Sauder: I think people need to hear what you're saying is like. This acute awakeness to whatever's on the other side of your decision. Yep. That's the gift. That's the continued gift of agency and choice and authority.

[00:17:35] Tiffany Sauder: Exactly,

[00:17:35] Andrea Liebross: yes.

[00:17:36] Tiffany Sauder: When you get stubborn in trying to make the one choice you made, right, which it might be on the path to write.

[00:17:44] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:17:44] Tiffany Sauder: Um, but it's directional decision making versus, um, what's the word I'm looking for versus like.

[00:17:56] Andrea Liebross: Absolute in a

[00:17:57] Tiffany Sauder: sense. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. This like sort of final authoritative decision making.

[00:18:02] Tiffany Sauder: Like that's not really how it works. And I think our minds can clamp up when we think about it that way.

[00:18:07] Andrea Liebross: Yes. 'cause I think goes back to like the evidence. We're always looking for evidence that this is going to be the right thing and you have to kind of make some decisions with only 70% of the evidence.

[00:18:18] Andrea Liebross: Right. Yeah. Um, you said something that made me think about. When we are considering how to move forward, or if this possibility can come to light, are we giving, like, I call it equal airtime to all the possibilities? Mm-hmm. Like sometimes are we go and fixate on the like Okay. Sitting in that car, my husband's like thinking about all the reasons not to do this.

[00:18:45] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. Could take seven years to sell our house. Could take, yeah.

[00:18:47] Andrea Liebross: Right. Um, do we really, do we wanna put ourselves in this position, you know? Mm-hmm. But I was, my brain was giving airtime too, huh? This might be nice. Like, we're gonna have no kids at home. This is gonna be fun. Mm-hmm. So you have to give equal airtime.

[00:19:02] Andrea Liebross: That's simple things.

[00:19:06] Tiffany Sauder: I wanna take a quick moment to thank my partners at Share Your Genius. For the past four years, they have been an incredible part of my journey. Behind the Microphone, share Your Genius is a content and podcast production agency that helps leaders and brands bring their message to life.

[00:19:20] Tiffany Sauder: So whether you're trying to find your voice, develop a content. Strategy or get your leader behind a microphone, they're gonna help you make it simple, strategic, and impactful. The other thing I was taught that I think, uh, is coming forward in what you're saying too, is this what versus how.

[00:19:35] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:35] Tiffany Sauder: So belief is about this understanding whether or not the what can happen and going back to this evidence conversation when you don't yet have evidence that you are.

[00:19:47] Tiffany Sauder: Current path, current strategy, current financing situation, current customer list, current market. Mm-hmm. Potential. Mm-hmm. All of that can lead you to the, what you start to clam up. But it's like, until I believe in the, what my brain does not solve for the exponential. How.

[00:20:04] Andrea Liebross: Yes. Correct. I would say so. It

[00:20:05] Tiffany Sauder: is such a powerful unlock.

[00:20:06] Andrea Liebross: It is. I mean, we were talking about today, um, someone really does need to hire more people and, but in the back of her brain is, can I. Is the business gonna come to support the people? Mm-hmm. Now she knows that it's happening, right? Mm-hmm. But she can't grow or scale without these people, so she's waiting for some evidence, you know, to be solidly locked in.

[00:20:32] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. Right? We struggle with this stuff, but I said, you're getting in your own way of this growth and scaling. Mm-hmm. You have to stick with the, you believe this is the right move. In order to make that happen. And I think it keeps you like playing small. Mm-hmm. So, I, I wrote this book. She Thinks Big, the podcast, She Thinks Big.

[00:20:51] Andrea Liebross: So sometimes people ask me, well, what's, what's the opposite of that? Mm-hmm. And I think it's playing small. Sometimes it feels safe, sometimes it feels like the right thing. But, and it might be like so. Mm-hmm. I don't know, but it's not,

[00:21:06] Tiffany Sauder: well, it's a stubble edged sword in that those are, those are feelings that protect us.

[00:21:11] Andrea Liebross: Correct. Yeah. And that there's something called the motivational triad. I don't know if you're familiar with this. No. Do

[00:21:16] Tiffany Sauder: tell.

[00:21:16] Andrea Liebross: So we, this is like caveman brain. We're motivated by um, things. We want things to be easy. We want things to be safe. We want things to be efficient. I always think it's more than a triad anyway.

[00:21:28] Andrea Liebross: I say we want things to be fun. Mm-hmm. So, um. We're, we're searching to make sure that it's gonna be easy, safe, efficient, and fun. Well, hiring someone.

[00:21:39] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:40] Andrea Liebross: Not easy. Mm-hmm. Um, not very fun. Usually no. And not

[00:21:44] Tiffany Sauder: right. Not, it's not efficient.

[00:21:46] Andrea Liebross: No, it's not. Right. So it's like any, it makes

[00:21:48] Tiffany Sauder: everything harder for a while.

[00:21:49] Andrea Liebross: Yeah. Yeah. So of course you're gonna have some resistance to it. Mm-hmm. Like, that's how we're wired. But I always like to say we're not living in the caveman era anymore. Mm-hmm. We don't need to. Hide out in the cave. 'cause some bear's gonna eat us when we leave. Mm-hmm. So we have the resources and the ability to make anything work.

[00:22:08] Andrea Liebross: That's

[00:22:10] Tiffany Sauder: What do you say to the woman who says, but Andrea, I'm just being realistic.

[00:22:13] Andrea Liebross: Oh, that's a, that's a great one. Yeah.

[00:22:16] Tiffany Sauder: I'm being realistic. Okay. So you're being crazy. I'm being realistic.

[00:22:21] Andrea Liebross: I love that. Um, who's, who's reality? Right. Like, and you haven't created the next reality yet.

[00:22:31] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:31] Andrea Liebross: Right. So in the moment, this maybe looks like the right thing to do to not hire, we'll call it.

[00:22:38] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. Okay. But I also say like the past is can just be a teacher. It's not a fortune teller.

[00:22:46] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:47] Andrea Liebross: So the realism comes from maybe past experience? Mm-hmm. Or where you are right now, what you're feeling today. Mm-hmm. But it doesn't dictate what's happening, the new reality. Mm-hmm. Right. So I, I like to go like, the past can be a teacher.

[00:23:02] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.

[00:23:03] Andrea Liebross: That's, I love, love that it's not a fortune teller.

[00:23:04] Tiffany Sauder: I love that saying. That's really

[00:23:05] Andrea Liebross: powerful. And that kind of goes back to the belief, right? Mm-hmm. You have to believe that something different is possible. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't always mean more either. It can just mean different.

[00:23:14] Tiffany Sauder: Totally. Yeah. So give us an example of what that looks like.

[00:23:17] Tiffany Sauder: 'cause more is where my. Uh, competitive capitalist brain goes to is that belief is always about more. So what? Yeah. Okay. When you say could look different,

[00:23:25] Andrea Liebross: um, I think that, I mean, I like more too, so I'm gonna admit

[00:23:30] Tiffany Sauder: maybe, maybe just like, can we just redact this question from the interview?

[00:23:35] Andrea Liebross: I mean, I'm all about more.

[00:23:38] Andrea Liebross: However, I think

[00:23:39] Tiffany Sauder: if you talk about your move, you guys already lived in a house, right? It's just a different environment. Just

[00:23:43] Andrea Liebross: a different environment, right? Mm-hmm. Um. But also when you're talking about time, for example, like this doesn't mean, it doesn't mean that it has to take more time. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, it doesn't mean that it has to take more resources now.

[00:23:59] Andrea Liebross: So that's what I mean. It just, if we do things differently, it might create eight more mm-hmm. Of something or less. Like, I don't even know, do we wanna go for more or less, right?

[00:24:09] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:10] Andrea Liebross: So. I don't think you have to add something in, in order to have a different output. I think maybe you just have to shift, like I call it, like turn the dial a

[00:24:21] Tiffany Sauder: little bit.

[00:24:21] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. That's been a huge, huge hurdle for me and even as I was in sort of in my intro, being like, okay, I really want to grow this Life of And project a lot this year. Like I have like a 10 x goal and I cannot, I, I will not. I'm choosing not to. I can, I choose not to. Put 10 x time towards it. Right. And so, because my brain says effort equals output.

[00:24:51] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:52] Tiffany Sauder: I was so afraid to commit to the goal.

[00:24:55] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:56] Tiffany Sauder: In any public capacity, or even privately to Sam or whatever, and be like, I wanna go for this. 'cause I'm like, dude, like the hours are pretty locked.

[00:25:05] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:06] Tiffany Sauder: And so I have to believe. That somehow I'm gonna work more efficiently. I'm gonna find partners.

[00:25:13] Tiffany Sauder: I'm gonna learn how to, like, I'm gonna learn.

[00:25:15] Andrea Liebross: Well, you're, you're also building a structure around it, right? Like you're, you're creating support for yourself to make this happen.

[00:25:22] Tiffany Sauder: Am I? Yes, I guess. I

[00:25:23] Andrea Liebross: think you are. I mean, I don't, you tell me, right? Yeah. You're doing things a little differently. Like just sitting here in the studio's.

[00:25:29] Andrea Liebross: D

[00:25:29] Tiffany Sauder: Totally. I was like, I don't have time to buy this thing. I don't have time to do the techno. I don't have time to learn that. Like I have to go right now.

[00:25:34] Andrea Liebross: Yeah. So you're creating things to help. Mm-hmm. Support that. I always say like our most valuable resources are time, money, people, and energy. And sometimes I'll ask which, which do you think is most important or which is most valuable out of time, money, energy, and people.

[00:25:51] Andrea Liebross: A lot. I mean, I usually at time are money. Mm-hmm. As the two most. Do they

[00:25:55] Tiffany Sauder: usually say the thing that is most scarce to them?

[00:25:57] Andrea Liebross: Yes. Yeah, a hundred percent. Mm-hmm. I always argue back and I would ar say that your energy or your brain power is the most valuable because with that you can create, and I could put this in air codes, more time, more money.

[00:26:14] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. More people power. Mm-hmm. Right. Doesn't always.

[00:26:17] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah,

[00:26:18] Andrea Liebross: that's good. Go the other way,

[00:26:19] Tiffany Sauder: Uhhuh.

[00:26:19] Andrea Liebross: So, so these are the kinds of things like,

[00:26:22] Tiffany Sauder: yeah,

[00:26:22] Andrea Liebross: we do need systems and processes mm-hmm. And better ways to move through our world, but this is like, this is this internal work. You have to kind of change the way you're thinking.

[00:26:33] Tiffany Sauder: For sure. 'cause if you put a new financial process into an environment that has. I wanna say like, uh, scarcity thinking. Yep. It doesn't matter. They're never gonna grow. Exactly.

[00:26:44] Andrea Liebross: Exactly. That's I say like if we're at a board, we're in a table in a conference room and you put your plan down mm-hmm. Right? And pass it around and you've got all the different ways this is gonna happen if you don't actually believe it could happen.

[00:26:57] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. It's not happening.

[00:26:58] Tiffany Sauder: So you work exclusively with female business owners, helping them. There's

[00:27:02] a

[00:27:02] Andrea Liebross: few little men.

[00:27:03] Tiffany Sauder: That's for the purposes of this podcast and the way I'm explaining the bio, you work exclusively?

[00:27:09] Andrea Liebross: I do. I do.

[00:27:10] Tiffany Sauder: Um, and so what are the outside of belief? Mm-hmm. Where do you see women kind of hitting their heads on progress on.

[00:27:19] Tiffany Sauder: The impact that they want to make. What? What else? Trips them up? What do we,

[00:27:24] Andrea Liebross: what other people will think? That's a huge one. It comes out in lots of different ways.

[00:27:29] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.

[00:27:30] Andrea Liebross: But what are other people going to think? Am I going to disappoint someone or myself? That totally gets in the way.

[00:27:38] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:39] Andrea Liebross: Um. Thinking they don't have the resources.

[00:27:43] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. Time, money, energy, people, power that it will take, a lot of times someone might start a conversation with, the most important thing to me is my family.

[00:27:50] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:51] Andrea Liebross: That comes above all else. And I agree. Like, my family is most important too, and, right. Mm-hmm. We can still 10 exit. Mm-hmm. Like, who's to say?

[00:28:03] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. We can't have both, right? Mm-hmm. So, um. And all of those things, again, sound very noble.

[00:28:11] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:11] Andrea Liebross: Sound very like smart, smart statements. Mm-hmm. But they're also holding you back.

[00:28:18] Tiffany Sauder: Well, they're a defensive posture.

[00:28:20] Andrea Liebross: They totally are. And I see that, um, especially women who have maybe are starting a new endeavor.

[00:28:28] Andrea Liebross: Um, or stayed home with kids for a while mm-hmm. And now are like doing what they, they, that's a real hard one for them. Mm-hmm. Right. Because then they feel like they're, they should be mm-hmm. Spending their time and money and energy mm-hmm. On something else. And they kind of don't believe that they could do both.

[00:28:46] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. Totally. Well, they haven't seen it demonstrated, or they had lived or observed experiences

[00:28:51] Andrea Liebross: mm-hmm.

[00:28:52] Tiffany Sauder: That are informing that I. I kind of unloaded on my husband last night. Um, my daughter plays travel volleyball and she's plays at a very elite level, and that takes a lot mm-hmm. From us as a family.

[00:29:07] Tiffany Sauder: So last night we were talking about whether or not it's okay for her to leave school, for get to practice, okay. For this private thing, uh, before school's over, and I'm like. Absolutely not. There is no way, like I just lost my shit on my husband in front of everybody and I was like, there's absolutely not.

[00:29:27] Tiffany Sauder: And, and as happens, my husband is a very rational man who's very strategic and has probably, and had already thought about this a hundred times. And he came back and he said if, if she would not be doing well in the class that she needs to leave 10 minutes early on once a week. Then a hundred percent she should stay.

[00:29:49] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. If she's able to hold

[00:29:53] Andrea Liebross: mm-hmm.

[00:29:53] Tiffany Sauder: A good grade and leave 10 minutes early, it accelerates her ability to be able to play in the position she wants to play. And she's 14, 15 is like the big year that they start to get recruited, which is the most insane thing ever. But it, and he was kind of like little miss Life of And Yes.

[00:30:12] Tiffany Sauder: You know. But what you're saying is this mom who says. I don't wanna sacrifice anything that my family has received from me.

[00:30:20] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:20] Tiffany Sauder: And so I'm afraid to venture out at all.

[00:30:24] Andrea Liebross: Yeah.

[00:30:25] Tiffany Sauder: Because that would be bad, that it's a different environment. But I was freaking out, like, you know, she's gonna be illiterate, was basically where my head was at.

[00:30:33] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. Because she's gonna lose 10 minutes of school and he's like, yeah. If, if the indicators show. Your kids aren't doing well because you're doing on this new role, then you should probably undo some of those decisions. Yes. 'cause your kids are a priority in this, but don't not make the choice before you know that.

[00:30:50] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. Don not give yourself the chance. Don't not believe that these things can coexist.

[00:30:55] Andrea Liebross: Yes. I think also it's like when you talk about you're leading your family. Okay. Yeah. And leadership, I think is really more about judgment than anything else. So you're making a judgment call. Mm-hmm. Like she's doing okay in this class.

[00:31:08] Andrea Liebross: This is gonna help or propel in other ways.

[00:31:10] Tiffany Sauder: I mean, I still think it's insane.

[00:31:13] Andrea Liebross: It's, but, but

[00:31:14] Tiffany Sauder: how am I this person? But then I look

[00:31:16] Andrea Liebross: living in a world where that happens all the time, right?

[00:31:18] Tiffany Sauder: It's like a silly microcosm. But I think when we take that into our environment of we've made all these presumptions of failure before we even have any evidence, and that was where my husband gets the credit.

[00:31:29] Tiffany Sauder: He's like, what evidence do you have that this being excellent at volleyball makes terrible kids. I was like, Ooh, that is irrelevant to this conversation. He's like, it feels pretty relevant to this conversation, but I think we look, we bel. I was believing. Yeah. Will you kind of stick to the principles?

[00:31:48] Tiffany Sauder: Right. That was definitely my argument.

[00:31:50] Andrea Liebross: Yes. Like on principle, this is not principle, this is not, this is not how we operate as a family. That's

[00:31:55] Tiffany Sauder: exactly what I said. Okay.

[00:31:57] Andrea Liebross: There

[00:31:58] Tiffany Sauder: you were

[00:31:58] Andrea Liebross: there. Yeah.

[00:31:59] Tiffany Sauder: So what does that sound like for a woman when she's trying to take, when she's about ready to take a risk? I'm afraid of what people are gonna say.

[00:32:05] Tiffany Sauder: I'm afraid. Yeah. Like this,

[00:32:06] Andrea Liebross: this is. Yeah. I'm afraid I'm gonna, I'm afraid to take this risk. What if all of a sudden she starts failing from the class? Or creates

[00:32:14] Tiffany Sauder: exponential risk for the family, right. Whatever. Yeah.

[00:32:16] Andrea Liebross: Whatever. Like what if, right? Mm-hmm. And you're only going to the what if that that is, is catastrophizing.

[00:32:23] Andrea Liebross: Catastrophizing

[00:32:23] Tiffany Sauder: my fear. Which goes back to your small thinking and I think nobody cares about my daughter in volleyball. I don't actually think you do. It's just a real life example of where it crept in. Mm-hmm. I would, I would consider myself. I teach and thinking, yes, I would consider myself somebody who has, but there's these moments where it feels very close to home.

[00:32:41] Tiffany Sauder: Like you're gonna lose something sacred and you look at it and say, am I really though? Am I really? And

[00:32:46] Andrea Liebross: that's not like who you are as a mom. You know? You're not just gonna succumb to these sports. Yes. Right. Specifically. So this is, this is, but okay. But your confidence,

[00:32:55] Tiffany Sauder: yeah.

[00:32:55] Andrea Liebross: In this decision is only gonna grow if we, if she goes honestly.

[00:33:00] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. And this. It works out, whatever that means, Uhhuh and that, that's a whole other discussion. Right. But so because there's no evidence yet in a sense that the decision itself is the right one.

[00:33:13] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:14] Andrea Liebross: We start to backpedal and make different decisions. Okay. And our strategy sort of changes. That's why I say sometimes like belief has, is part of the strategy even.

[00:33:23] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:33:24] Andrea Liebross: Right. If the strategy is that she might get on this team because she now can play this position, 'cause she had this private coaching. Mm-hmm. Okay, then we gotta put some belief into this. Mm-hmm. And it's just needs a seat at the table just like everything else. Mm-hmm. So I'm a believer,

[00:33:38] Tiffany Sauder: I mean, okay.

[00:33:38] Tiffany Sauder: It's so nerdy. I didn't mean it to feel so stupid. We should have stop. I'm a believer in belief. Yeah, totally. I feel energized actually having had this conversation. 'cause there is this. Intrinsic energy that starts to come with being like, yeah, let's go.

[00:33:51] Andrea Liebross: Yeah, let's go. So I, let's do this. I think that's why I think this work is so important, this kind of work.

[00:33:55] Andrea Liebross: I'm, and you know, I like to say everybody needs a to believe list. You know, you have your to-do list, I'm sure you have a to-do list. Mm. Right? Mm-hmm. And it's got 20 things and, or more, or a hundred. And, but if you really look at it, how many of those things align with something that you're, you believe is possible?

[00:34:14] Andrea Liebross: And if you. I, this happens a lot in business, like we've got all these little things. Mm-hmm. But is this really moving the needle forward? Mm-hmm. Are all these things on here? Go back to what you really believe. I call it your two believe list. That's what's gonna tell you what you need to do today.

[00:34:27] Tiffany Sauder: Do you have a two believe list?

[00:34:28] Andrea Liebross: I do.

[00:34:28] Tiffany Sauder: Will you share it with us?

[00:34:30] Andrea Liebross: Sure.

[00:34:30] Tiffany Sauder: Is it super personal? I, no. Okay.

[00:34:32] Andrea Liebross: I mean, it's like five things.

[00:34:33] Tiffany Sauder: Great. Can we hear it? I would love to.

[00:34:35] Andrea Liebross: It kind of goes back to what I believe in too. Like alum possibility, like mm-hmm. Anything is possible. I believe that any transformation or any change that's gonna happen really has to start with me.

[00:34:46] Andrea Liebross: It's an intimate type experience. Mm-hmm. Um, I believe that I can create whatever. Mm-hmm. I want to create, and I use that word a lot, create. And um, I also believe that curiosity should be the driver of all decisions.

[00:35:03] Tiffany Sauder: Love it. I love the two believe list.

[00:35:05] Andrea Liebross: Yeah. So if I look at like go to Target. Yeah. You know, is that aligning with any of these?

[00:35:09] Andrea Liebross: Mm-hmm. What's, why am I doing that? And I'm getting pretty granular, but

[00:35:13] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.

[00:35:13] Andrea Liebross: But it is kind of, it helps you create priorities from a order sense. Mm-hmm. Like if we could talk about, I think the word priorities means too, but like it helps you figure out what, what, what's next.

[00:35:26] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. Love it. So if someone is listening to this saying.

[00:35:30] Tiffany Sauder: Uh, my belief muscle is quite atrophied. Mm-hmm. And I am wanting some of this. Where do they start? And then if they want your help, how can they find you?

[00:35:41] Andrea Liebross: Um, I think they start with themselves, but they start like, you have to start listening to some of this and seeing how it kind of, in, it's almost like you have to infuse it into what you're doing.

[00:35:55] Andrea Liebross: So, um. I think, and it's, it's practice, it's muscle me like it. Mm-hmm. It's a muscle. So, I mean, listen to my podcast.

[00:36:03] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:04] Andrea Liebross: Get the book all called. She Thinks Big. Um, but I'm always open to a conversation too. Mm-hmm. I always say that like, message me, let's talk. 'cause I think even just having a quick conversation with someone can help jumpstart you.

[00:36:17] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. Unlock for sure. Yeah. We'll put links to everything in show notes. Um, and this is the first of two recordings we're doing together today. Um, so we're talking about some inner work right now between the now of us Now, or you

[00:36:28] Andrea Liebross: talk about the external work.

[00:36:29] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. So jump over to Andrea's

[00:36:31] Andrea Liebross: podcast. Yeah.

[00:36:31] Andrea Liebross: It's like, this is a great, this is a, like, we can't, I can't do what I do without you doing what you do.

[00:36:36] Tiffany Sauder: I, so, yes. Awesome. Well, Andrea, thanks for joining me. This is super fun. And to believe less, guys, we need this. Let's do it right. Need a

[00:36:44] Andrea Liebross: belief plan too. You need a belief plan.

[00:36:48] Tiffany Sauder: The next episode. We'll have that next episode.

[00:36:48] Tiffany Sauder: Next

[00:36:48] Andrea Liebross: episode,

[00:36:49] Tiffany Sauder: episode. Awesome. Thank you guys and uh, again, for joining us on another episode of Life of And, and, uh, just appreciate you joining us and I hope that you remember the things that we're doing in our life are all fueled by this idea of belief. So thank you Andrea, for teaching us today, and thanks for

[00:37:06] Andrea Liebross: having

[00:37:06] Tiffany Sauder: me learning right along with you guys.

[00:37:07] Tiffany Sauder: So thanks. Thanks for listening to the Life of And this is your weekly reminder to keep making bold choices, saying clear yeses and holding space for what matters most. As always, if you like this episode, I'd love for you to drop a review and share it with your friend. It's the fastest way that we can grow the show.

[00:37:25] Tiffany Sauder: Thanks for joining us. I'll see you next time.